Posts by La Capra

5

Does the Watchtower Society resemble the ancient Jewish system of worship?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

jehovah, his word, and his organization.

jehovah, moses and his chosen people.

jehovah, the aaronic priesthood and his chosen people.

La Capra

Well, keeping in mind that the JW "history" is ever-so-slightly slanted to preview the whole Jesus thing. I think most Christian religions use the same bent. Sometimes I have to stop and think, Truthseeker, how much I understand of my "Jewish History" is colored by the JW painting of it. They take all of the Bible, mistranslate it, take it out of context, and only consult outside sources on interpretation when it suits whatever mind control tachnique they are currently practicing. The real connection between the JW "history" to which you refer is the need for the "organization" or a "channel" to God.

Not so with the early Jews. Looking at all that leadership in the early history of the Jews as "mediation" isn't exactly Jewish. Think of some of the prominant non-priestly figures, like Jonah, Miriam, Ruth, Naomi, Esther (yeah, I know, there are more, but I have con law on the brain). That form of worship, devotion and loyalty was not accomplished through the "mediator" of the day, but by dint of their own determination.

And anyway, those "sacrifices" were promptly followed by fabulous barbecue (of the recently sacrificed animals) (Baruchu...) and days on end of partying. When did that ever happen in JW style "worship." Maybe things would have been different for me had that been the case: Say the blessing, butcher the cow, barbecue the beast and get down to the real business of hanging out at a festival, eating, drinking, singing, dancing, buying and selling trinkets and goodies, and generally celebrating freedom...

Shoshana

8

Do they going to change doctrine again ? WT Oct,1st 2004,pg12,para14.

by jwsons in

jw
friends

according to the watchtower issue october 1st 2004 page 12, paragraph 14: "a second way that organized religion dishonors god is through the conduct of its adherents.

christians are expected to follow the teaching of jesus.

among other things, jesus taught his followers to "love one another" and to remain "no part of the world.".

La Capra

Don't they have a book called, "Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry?"

Oh, I guess everyone is supposed to know that this was a different definition that they use for "organize." For some reason, this morning I am really hating them. I am not usually so vehement. I better chill, gotta spend the morning with the young'uns.

Shoshana

18

Anyone in Northern California?

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

just wondering if there is anyone from northern california.

La Capra

Me, Me....I'm in the wine country, "north bay," on the 101...

Shoshana

27

Unwritten prophecies of JWs,

by Brummie in

jw
friends

...that helped the wt to recover after 1975 failure.

all of us could document the written false prophecies of the wtower, 1799, 1874, 1914 -15-18-19-1935-75.by 2000....etc but how about the unwritten ones?

can you document any?.

La Capra

Avi

Then there was the 1986 year of peace and security, in 1985 this was made a big issue at the "integrity keepers" convention, we were really expecting the outbreak of sudden destruction even though it wasnt written down
I remember that BS.

Me too. It was sitting at the convention in 1987, after 1986 had passed, free and clear of armaggedon, that I allowed myself the freedom to imagine life without all this BS. I DAed the following October. Shoshana (of the take a few months to get my ducks in a row class)

27

Are JWs "Approval Whores"?

by Scully in

during a quiet moment at work the other night, i picked up a back issue of o magazine, one of the current quintessentially authoritative journalistic voices of the modern north american woman.

it was the december 2003 issue, and i was intrigued by the title of the article: "the halo effect" which promised to examine the condition of 'being too good' for one's own good.

the preamble contained the phrase "self-sacrificing" and i was immediately zapped by that standard jw buzz-word and the article's suggestion that being "self-sacrificing" is not all it's cracked up to be.. you can read the article here: stop seeking approval.

La Capra

Maybe you can help me about the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. If there isn't a new system, then what does that mean? I have so many doubts about the society but that one still stumps me.

When I left (at age 19), I left fully imprinted with black and white thinking. Any situation could be viewed only one way: all right or all wrong (JW mentality). Falling into this mindset is the most common way I regress. But deep down, I know that this mindset is ALL WRONG (tee hee...)

This part of the prayer does not have to mean that all the Earth is doing God's will, or that God intends his will to be demonstrated in the same identical way in everyone.

One single person doing God's will is the fulfillment of this prayer. Which means this prayer is answered billions of times a day, whenever anyone says a little prayer or blessing, does something kind, stands up for injustice, gives a handful of change to a homeless person, comforts a crying child, appreciates the beauty of nature, you catch my drift? You can view this part of the prayer as God's assignment to you to do holy things right now, here on Earth (just like they do heaven...)

When Jesus "gave" this prayer, he was not giving any new prayer. This was the way the Jews prayed for ages. He is outlining the structure: Honor God, honor God's presence, ask for stuff (food, healing, blessings, a new car), ask for redemption and forgiveness, ask to be protected, It wasn't the be all end all prayer of promise of a new system.

(As an aside-I try to remember if the prayers at meetings and assemblies followed a similar structure, and I can't-but I think they sorta did. I do remember, though is that we were told to constantly pray, but were never really taught how to have a personal prayer practice....)

Wifey-I encourage you to begin enjoying the shades of grey as you journey beyond the WTBTS. It is a never ending reminder of the freedom thought you now have.

Take care, Shoshana

12

People to People Student Ambassador Programs -- heard of it?

by cruzanheart in

jw
friends

our daughter jennie got an invitation to take part in a people to people student ambassador program, and we're kind of curious as to what this is and how much it might cost (their website shyly avoids talking about money).

have any of you lovely people out there heard of this program?

is it legit?.

La Capra

This one costs at least $5000 for a two to three week adventure, that involves a lot of homestays (that's the ambassador part). A whole group travels together. They go in the summer, and it doesn't look like they enroll in school, but participate in the culture in other ways. $5000 (not including spending money) seems steep to me when the lodging and food (thanks to the hosts) don't cost the program a dime, but the administration of it, along with the teachers for the program that travel with the kids, need to be paid and paid for. It gets good reviews, but it is expensive. The teen tours that are cheaper are known for their partying and allowing the kids to run wild in foreign lands, they have much less supervision. This program was established (in name at least) by Eisenhower. It is probably safe, and not a scam. My thoughts on exchanges, though, is that when you travel in a pack with other American kids, you tend not to mix it up with the local family you are staying with too much. Again, there are other exchange programs that are much more into the exchange of culture, not jet-setting. Shoshana

12

People to People Student Ambassador Programs -- heard of it?

by cruzanheart in

jw
friends

our daughter jennie got an invitation to take part in a people to people student ambassador program, and we're kind of curious as to what this is and how much it might cost (their website shyly avoids talking about money).

have any of you lovely people out there heard of this program?

is it legit?.

La Capra

One of my former students JUST walked in with a recommendation from People to People to fill out. I will be investigating this a lot before I recommend her. There are so many "exchange programs" that are such a scam (collect lots of money from the parents, then send the kids off to foreign countries where they don't have host families lined up....put 'em in a school that gets "stuck" with them ... etc.) I still would go with the tried and true programs: AFS and Youth for Understanding. Shoshana

13

New Case: good for WBTS

by La Capra in

in reviewing the "new news" out of the courts this morning, i came across this case: doe v. corp. of president of church of jesus christ of latter day saints: 2004 wl 1846365 utah app.,2004.

aug. 19, 2004. the church won, the basic premise was that the church owed no duty to the children to warn of a "high priest's" past sexual abuse activities.

"church did not have special relationship with church "high priest" giving rise to duty to warn of his alleged sexual abuse; "high priest" was not church agent, employee, or member of clergy, and abuse did not occur on church property or during church-sponsored activity.".

La Capra

Well, it means only one of these two things

1) Utah does not intend to protect the shenanigans of the clergy, hiding behind the shield that there was no duty owed by the Church, to protect its adherents from predators....We won't make the same mistake the Catholics made. The Catholics are losing everything.

or

2) Let's settle this once and for all, we protect the powerhouse of this state to the end, we were appointed by legislators that belong to this church, who are elected by members of this church. Let's send a message to anyone who would dare try to discredit the Church that they have no recourse in us.

I actually think it might be number one, because if it were number two, they simply would have not granted cert. However, it would have headed to the DC Supremes anyway.

Monday morning legal predictions...free of charge, this early in the morning.

Shoshana

24

JW foul play.

by avishai in

jw
friends

what instances do you know of jw crime, particularly jw on jw or jw on xjw?.

i know of several instances.

my own po, elder grandfather ripped off tons of dubs.

La Capra

My Dad, a nonJW used to allude to some illegal and unethical dealings that some of the JW men pulled on each other and nonJWs. But my father is a good guy, he would never name names or give details, because it would embarrass the people who got scammed. Even when I was trying to believe in whole religion, I knew my dad was being truthful when he referred to it.

When I was really little, the JW father of my mom's friend set a church on fire. But I think he was just crazy and delusional.

Shoshana

6

So 'love' is the identifying mark of 'true' christians? Well then..........

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

jw
friends

........................dubs are not true christians.

they use that point to prove they are and it's that very point that proves they are not!.

i was doing a bit of house work this morning when the phone rang.

La Capra

The lack of love was my primary reason for leaving in 1987. And since I knew the doctrine was a total crock, staying in for the "moral support" was a losing proposition. If I was going to spit out a bunch of ridiculous drivel, I figured I might as well enjoy it. But I was lucky. When I left, my mom amd her step-sister were the only other baptized JWs in our immediate family, so I wasn't giving up familial love (my mom didn't know what that meant back then anyway).

Shoshana